[Orcnet] MORE ABOUT: Wind power and gas turbines

[Tim Wescott]

On Wed, December 3, 2008 11:56 am, Keith Lofstrom wrote:
>
>> >Subject: [Orcnet-members] MORE ABOUT: [Orcnet] Wind power and gas
>> turbines
>> >>From data points from Steve W:
>> >
>> >There are big flat places like Wyoming and Montana and the Dakotas that
>> have
>> >the potential for enormous amounts of wind generated electricity.
>> >
>> >To make this happen, these states are promoting the construction of
>> major
>> >new HV distribution systems to collect the electricity and export to
>> other
>> >states like Minnesota, Illinois and Missouri where it would feed the
>> big
>> >Mid-West grid.
>
> On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 08:36:07AM -0800, H. Joe Tabor wrote:
>
>> Last summer I checked out the Pickens plan website.  They had a great
>> video on a
>> Texas town that was economically dying, but T. Boone Pickens put up a
>> windmill farm, and the town is now prospering and growing.  Haven't
>> checked out the latest video yet, but here is the link if anyone still
>> hasn't
>> seen it.  (At the entry to the web page, there is a selection to skip
>> providing the requested info.)
>
> Yes but ...
>
> It is common knowledge that wind turbines are getting built - many are
> in Oregon, and that has been in the Oregonian many times recently.
> My question is where the power comes from when the wind isn't blowing;

(lots of insightful analysis snipped)

> And that is why I am interested in the actual data on the
> construction of gas turbine generators in conjunction with the
> construction of wind generation.  Investments here are not made
> elsewhere (conservation, load shifting, internationalization of
> the grid), and as citizen engineers we have to think smarter than
> the rooms full of Enron-like smart guys that the arbitrageurs can
> afford to hire.  "Alternative" energy is not necessarily "good"
> energy - it depends on the situation and the numbers.  It takes
> people with our talents to understand those numbers and
> situations, and recommend the best among available alternatives.
>
> So - beyond the obvious (more windmills are getting built) and
> the seemingly unrelated (more natural gas facilities are being
> built) does anyone have data or experiences that demonstrate a
> connection, or the lack thereof?  Remember, other citizens are
> counting on us to notice the subtle stuff.
>
I wish I knew the answer to that.  I think there is a lot of fuzzy
thinking going on with respect to alternative energy, and there is no
doubt some hard (and gleeful) number crunching going on, too.

I think your concerns are valid, and I think they are part of the larger
question which should be asked for any engineering change, and should
_certainly_ be asked for such a major one: "will there be any net benefit
from this?".  I firmly believe that _something_ needs to change, but
whether we can restrict this change to running the grid on Hippie Power or
whether we all have to make some serious lifestyle adjustments, I dunno.

So where can we get our hands on the overall planning documents that
include the planning for the gas-fired plants?

And who's working on a fast-fire nuclear reactor that'll come up in
minutes instead of hours (perhaps if it were air cooled and graphite
moderated, like that one over in -- oh never mind).

-- 
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Land line: 503.631.7815
Cell: 503.349.8432